On Alex Liang, a Singaporean who gave up his Singapore citizenship

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• I don't think MINDEF and SAF should responsible for your migration -- on the broader perspective, blame it on other countries instead?

  1. Why are the other countries so much bigger than us? Why are they so much stronger than us? -- This would constitute why we need almost half the Singaporean population to serve army for more than a quarter of their lives.

  2. Why is Singapore so well-situated in a location without natural disasters? Why is Singapore so strategically located that so many ships want to stopover here?
  -- This would constitute why so many countries are always, at every minute and every second, want to takeover this piece of land to boost their imports and exports. Besides, without natural disasters, this would be a haven for any country to build its city in. At the current state when Singapore has developed to such a hub, you think the other countries are contented with watching us grow? Once our defense is down, look who's gonna arrive and take our homeland away first.

  With these in mind, Singapore cannot stop boosting its defence capabilities, just to keep on par with other countries and protect ourselves and our families and friends. While I am not a die-hard PAP/government fan, I fully agree with the decision to make NS compulsory.

  Would you rather cut your hair every year, or would you rather succumb your family and friends to foreign invasions?

  Would you rather have MINDEF dictate your life, or let a big power dictate the lives of all Singaporeans?

  I'm sure your knowledge of our history with Malaysia, the UK and Japan should be enough to discern what your priorities should be. Well, you can always choose to escape.. to the lands of those who are vying your position and vacancy in this country.

  • Well said! The UK does not need some pseudo untrained cobler who knows nothing about quality shoes, or for that matter leather in general!!!

  • Maybe if you were a male you'd have different opinions.

  • First and foremost, we are blaming things that CAN be subjected to change. How the heck can the geological positioning of our country be changed?

    Secondly, there are LARGER countries that still enforce conscription, while some don't. Why? Think before you actually make such an assumption.

    Lastly, would you rather enlist and prove your words with actions?

    Would you rather sit at home and think 'logically' of an argument about conscription?

    Hey, not everyone wants to serve. Similarly, girls have the option, why can't we? Using the word 'equality' when it is convenient is always so enticing. As usual, all talk no action.

    • Look at countries , especially in the EU that have no national service , yet are the only ones with with experienced active armies , and they are the UK and France . There are no other EU countries with armies with real experience across the world .

  • You brain and washing cunts, all man and women have their right to choose. If you are in the armforces or never. Then you sholud take your head out from your arse. People need space or be displace. Only the no educated one have less or no opportunity to leave this, unforgiven lousy place, one can only live here with a fat bank account. I said young people live your dream, leave this place be good, treat people with respect, kind, you will be better off then being here, possible bring your family along too.

  • your reply is the successful outcome of national education being indoctrinated to every individual by this familiar subject in school also known as social studies . in my opinion the state needs to revise this policy and make national service optional . additionally if only citizens can have the right to vote , why do 2nd generation prs need to serve ns? think again , is this what you think equality is . if so , please educate yourself if knowledge from the web or books .

  • You are honestly deluded.

• @janice. MINDEF IB spotted. Stop sprouting bullshit about national defense lah. If so important, ask FTs and women to serve too loh..... why only pick on sg males? Why must a small group of sg born males make all the sacrifices when in the future majority of our population will be foreigners who did not and won't have to serve NS. Why? Fair or not?

• Janice: By your name, I am assuming you are a female? I think you are right about compulsory NS and how important it is to Singapore. In fact, we should go further an propose that everyone living in Singapore should have a part to play to protect our vulnerable country. Why just let a small portion of Singapore born male enjoy the honour of serving NS and doing reservist for a quarter of their lives? Following your logic, we should extend this wonderful privilege to all women in Singapore as well as all foreigners who want to come and live and work here. It is so important right? Everyone should part his or her part. It is only fair. You should be the first one to volunteer for this. :)

  • Hi Alvinology.

    You're right in saying that more people should actually serve national service e.g. Singaporean ladies. In fact, I'm already signed to SCDF. For that point, I'm definitely on your side.

    But I don't really get the part whereby you complain about whinning about the need to serve NS. As a Singaporean, it is our job to protect our loved ones in Singapore.

    My question to you is... if Singapore is really at war with another country (they come and attack us), will you be like the rest of the Singapore men out there defending your loved ones or just hide in a shelter with your family?

    The rest of your whinning points (like haircut, IPPT) comes with the package of defending your loved ones. If you are not fit, how can you fight someone from another country that is trained for war?

    Dont condemn me for replying in 2015. Happen to stumble across this while surfing the net.

    And btw, please don't treat as though I'm "at war" with you. I really am interested in your perspective.

    • Hey get lost PAP IB, I was jailed for not going for IPPT remedial training, and humiliated walking naked in DB.
      I will shoot you if I have the chance, you scumbag.

      • Jason, so will you defend your loved ones during times of war?

        • I will not, and everyone who is intelligent enough will not force their loved one to sacrifice for them. Must look a the other side of the coin mah.
          Also, stop strawman-ing please

          Why don't you ask Nathan and LKY why they didn't sacrifice themselves for their loved ones during WW2.

          Damn stupid question.. why don't you ask people why they lie when though they think honesty is best policy or why they want to be rich but earn only a few thousand question a month. Lame

      • You sound like a sad fk who forgot to attend his classes and got punished lol.

        • You should even more retarded, asking for the class to exist even in the first place.

          Bo liao. Goondu to the max. Let me weep for you ^^

        • Anyone who doesnt wish to attend a class should be excused. why waste your time and my time.

          You are the sad fuck.

  • I am a PR here for several years and married to a Singaporean. While I agree that Singapore needs a strong Armed Forces, other countries of similar size do not enforce conscription on their citizens or residents; they pay good salaries and provide good training, including university and college scholarships, to individuals who wish to enjoy a military career (and it it really is a career in its own right -- you cannot enjoy working on a Frigate or in an Apache helicopter in any other career). So, i do not think serving in the SAF should be mandatory: it seems to me this won't build good soldiers but resentful conscripts, highly subject to psychological PTSD issues and even 'friendly fire' incidents due to the chronic stress and resentment towards the PAP. To me, this is not necessary at all, especially when the PAP is sitting on $500-600 billions of CPF monies, and spends 24% of the GDP of Singapore on the Armed Forces. Other countries spend far less, and yet can afford good equipment, training, and, more importantly, they create real opportunities for civilians. My father was Army so i respect the value of an Army career.

  • So true Alvinology

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• I think the thing most guys have with NS is less of having to actually do it, but rather the inequality of it all - the flood of foreigners being let in and given a free ride on home ground without contributing to this cost of national defence borne by male Singaporeans.

  Once upon a time, when the domestic labour market was protected for locals, at least all the guys started out on an equal footing (well, exclude the occasional politician's son who managed to end up in a NS vocation which was actually related to his real world job later in life). People grumbled about NS but I think nobody got really angry about it. These days, when any Tom Dick and Harry is let in to compete in the domestic labour market, and male Singaporeans are effectively handicapped - first by the 2/2.5 years spent in full time NS and then thereafter by the annual ICTs.

• God forbids, should there be a war or an invasion but to put the whole "NS" dialogue in prospective; Will Singaporeans be ready to fight & defend their country ???. I don't think so, unless their maids are with them to assist. Honestly, in this day & age the concept of warfare is all based on "forward intelligence" and combat is " Engaging the enemy without seeing the enemy in the eye" . Singapore has to adopt a "pre-empt" combative system, an offensive methodology rather then a defensive system. The dense build up terrain of Singapore will not cope with the carnage should e.g.; bombs be dropped on her.

  2 years ago, while visiting Singapore, I was invited to a passing out parade & after seeing the ludicrous amusement, I told myself, "these lot will never be able to exercise what military expects of them". I draw a conclusion that Singaporeans will never be physically nor psychologically competent to engage in any conflict.

  Will foreigners defend Singapore, even "if" NS is introduced, I don't think so.
  I served the NS, my father was an expat and I was born in Singapore, so I got conscripted. This was 40 years ago & even at that time, NS was just a big boys scout camp, nobody has a sense of "civic pride", we got away with total mischief, just awaiting the 21/2 years to time out.

  Nowadays, with information on your fingertips, & a lot of Singaporeans having properties in foreign countries, there will be a mass exodus, should ill befall.

  However in clear thoughts, Singapore is a business hub, not a warring state, she is secular and has aligned herself with the mights of US, CHINA & RUSSIA. Singapore's foreign policy is tranquillize in all general aspects and therefore she will be always safe from conflict. The only conflict that will eventuate will be "Home Grown", a revolt, perhaps a political unrest or Home Grown Terror. The un-vetted influx of foreigners will pose a threat someday, foreigners are vocal, independent in their thoughts and have an "Objective Mind" as supposed to Singaporeans who are very "Subjective" in their approach due to the indoctrination by the ruling government.
  Im my view, I believe that local Singaporeans can & could be easily influenced by these foreigners to act in ways which may well constitute a detriment to people & property of Singapore.

• Thanks for expressing in words what I feel. I got really angry reading this and thinking about how unfair the whole system is. Yes we complain and grumble when serving full time NS but we still all finish it. The real anger is when we join workforce which is not level field for everyone. We are two years behind plus handicapped with endless ICT and RT. It is the unfairness of the whole thing that make us angry.

• This is so sad. I am 34 this year and still serving reservist. I feel you bro. I also can't pass ippt and doing rt now. 20 sessions! if i can pass why would i not want to? i have a family with two young kids and working in a demanding sales job that require me to work a lot of OT to chase numbers to feed my family. Last year i miss some of the rt and got charged. No compassion showed despite me explaining my circumstances and how difficult and demanding it is for us to meet reservist and rt callups in current economic situation. my foreigner and female colleagues don't have to worry about all these unfair disruptions. I am really up to my neck with the torture from saf. my wife and female boss also don't understand. keep nagging on why i so beh kan keep having to go back camp. life as a singapore born male stinks!

• The main reason he left was because he is gay.

  • Not everyone who leaves Singapore to live overseas is a 'raving faggot.' What makes you such an arsehole to say that?! Maybe YOU are the ladyboy, hm?

• Yes, I think everyone has a part in national defence. I've been participating in such initiatives too, but like you, my health isn't in the best condition to allow my participation in the army. Nonetheless, I do so agree with you that guys should not be the only one responsible for our country. :)

  And yes, I lament the lag of the same criteria for foreign immigrants. I strongly believe that new immigrants should go through any as well. If not, why take up a citizenship when you're not committed to being loyal?

  But I still think that this shouldn't discount the fact that protecting Singapore is the way to go. And leaving the country, is just a weak way of escaping the responsibility.

• @FT Dua Kee: Since ancient times during warfare, it has been men who have been fighting wars. Could be due to natural physiological advantage, and also to protect women who are the ones able to reproduce and ensure survival of the race and species. I would not ask FT to do NS as they will then have knowledge of our defense systems.

  @CSM Lee: Agree with you on the unfairness. However I guess we are paid more in comparison when working outside.

  @rytt: We men have ICT, women have maternity that puts them back on path of promotion also. Take it easy..